safe deposit boxes?
 

how do y'all feel about using safe deposit boxes? I dont have much worth squaring away in that manner but if I start to really accumulate I am not going to want to sit around on vacation wondering if my stash is being plundered

I figure I will keep some bullion on hand but for the better stuff I think this may become worth the hassle.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

This has been discussed here a few times in the past and members almost universally oppose the idea. But if you're going on vacation and need temporary security it may be the lesser of evils.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

This is how I feel about it - you could just put your coins in a box and send it to IRS

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Doesn't it give you a warm feeling just knowing big brother is looking over your stuff ..... ?

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I don't want to uncork this bottle again, but even though they dont need a warrant to compel a federal income tax return, they definitely need a warrant to seize a safe deposit box!

Since I do file 1040s, I don't worry too much about them doing that. I know that my returns are good and based on "true facts" and the law as it is, not how I might wish it to be; and that if they pursue any "persecutions" against me, I will successfully defend myself.

My major concern is theft by private persons not the government. Thanks for your reply, anyhow.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Safety Deposit box = bad, if you are the box holder and you die. Besides, if you really want security, you know how to secure the bullion in ways that are as superior w/o any Safety Deposit Box issues later on. I do not recommend such storage - short or long term.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

"Doesn't it give you a warm feeling just knowing big brother is looking over your stuff ..... ?"

Do you mean like "hot under the collar"?

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Are you saying that you file Hendrickson returns? :aetsch:
Actually what I meant is that when there is gold confiscation and everyone has to give up their gold in exchange for the amount of toilet paper specified by gobermint, it won't matter how you filed your returns (assuming you keep it in safe deposit box)

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I am aware of what happened in 1933 but I don't think it will happen again. And anyhow, I do not intend to keep it all there just items with numismatic value.

Moreover you will please note that in the 33 confiscation items with numismatic value were specifically exempted from the confiscation order. .....

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Notice they say "Suspicious Activity Report" there Anty.

:party30: Mr. Ep frequently visits his Box and it is very heavy! Just ain't normal how he comes and goes. Something fishy 'bout dat guy...better file a Report like that nice Homeland Security officer told us in the Training Seminar last month...

Linky

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I am a law abiding member of my community and a long term customer at my financial institution and they will certainly not be filing any silly forms on me if they know what's good for them. They know my sources of income which are all lawful.

That being said, I do believe that the current regulations related to "terrorism" or "drug trafficking" or "money laundering" or whatever is the "public danger" du jour are unconstitutional and disgustingly invasive of privacy.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

The problem is, I think, that laws can change with little or no notice. One day gold is legal, the next day it isn't. If you keep it in a bank and the law changes, whaddya gonna do then?

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

My Safety-Deposit box is in a Credit Union and mostly has important documents.........i.e. - car title, appraisals, etc.

Yeah, there's some silver there too but not much.

The rest of my 'stash' in well........I can't tell anyone otherwise....

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/l...otos/star1.gif

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

QWAK,Yep You can ALWAYS trust the US GOVERNMENT they NEVER LIE, just ask the NATIVE AMERICANS they will tell you! :deal: :laugh: :bird:

LOL SILLY BOY!!!!!

the DUCK

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Hey, Anty Ep;

It comes down to a preference issue. Read the recent thread from Joejeweler. He kept PMs in a home safe, a good one, that the theif did not break into, but caused a lot of damage none the less. He now stores his PMs in a large vault his boss has at the bank.

Personally, here is my concern for safety deposit boxes. I do not think the gov't will confiscate gold (the laws are on the books for it already except numismatic coins are exempt), they would have to offer something in exchange for it. However, the gov't or fed could issue an order that there is a banking holiday, all banks are closed for X number of days, (this has happened in the past) and will reopen on. . .. I can also see the gov't making a rule that all boxes must be opened in the presence of (fill in any gov't employee). Also if you go too often to your box the bank must write a SAR on you. Who doesn't want to look at their coins. If you don't have immediate access to your coins, assume they can be taken.


I use to keep PMs in there, but have since found a more secure site.

The Great Ag

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

No reason why you can't safely keep your gold with them then. By the way, why do you invest in it?

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

:congrats: Brilliant point!

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

The safe deposit box is probably more safe than anywhere else you would stash pms if you're only concerned about the neighborhood crack dealer.

But, it's probably the easiest access for any government agency if they should decide they want your stash. And remember, it doesn't matter what the laws say about taking your metals, they can be changed and/or ignored.

One strategy could be to put a small amount in a safe deposit box, if you have other things such as titles, or other important papers to keep safe. That way, if the feds decide to take what belongs to you, they'll get a small amount, be happy, move on to the next guy, and not worry about the thousands more ounces you have stashed at home.

That's just a few of my thoughts on the subject.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I dont have any "neighborhood crack dealers." That is not a problem in Pulaski Tenn. LOL. J/k.

If you live in a nice neighborhood, and you have gone to a local coin dealer and made significant aquisitions-- not saying that I've done this but I might-- then there is a chance that somebody from the cashier at the coin shop to the owner to their janitor, to your own insurance agent if you had coverage etc, somebody might pass the information on to a burglary ring and you would get hit. I dont know if you guys appreciate that as a far more significant risk than government confiscation but I do.

Now my only alternative would be, never having any insurance, always buying under a fake name, only using cash and m.os. Oh and never telling any of my friends or aquaintances that I dig coins for fear they might blab to the wrong person too. Well that is too much of a pain in the ass for me to keep all this secret, even if I do stay discreet, so I am researching your opinions for viable options for humans who live in the real world and are not constantly in fear of the government putting them in Gitmo the next day.

You guys are hilarious. I have been a liberterian-constitutionalist- survivalist etc since I was a teenager (farther back than I'd like to admit) and never have I met a worser group of paranoiacs than myself. Jeez I feel really "normal" now. LOL

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

What my bank? LOL I dumped most of my shares in them a few years back. I got gold etfs too, that breaks your Ponce's rule or whatever. Groupthink is not my style M'kay?

The short answers to your questions are two. "DIVERSIFICATION" and "ASSET ALLOCATION." Good terms to study if you're not familiar.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I agree that you should keep the Numismatic coins at the bank. There can't be much worse for a coin collector than seeing your 1916-D Mercury dime turned into a glob of silver.

The problem I have with a safe deposit box is that you don't get to enjoy the coins as much. Although with the recent scans I can see how you can have safety and still enjoy the coins.

65GT350

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

You guys are hilarious. I have been a liberterian-constitutionalist- survivalist etc since I was a teenager (farther back than I'd like to admit) and never have I met a worser group of paranoiacs than myself. Jeez I feel really "normal" now. LOL[/QUOTE]

You're right, AntyEp, it is kind of funny in a way, and I'm as paranoid as you'll find. But often paranoid types have been burned big time in significant ways that teach them to be as cautious as possible in future dealings. Sad, but true.

Vigilant, not Paranoid
 

The saying goes "If you aren't paranoid, you haven't been paying attention". I don't view GIM members as paranoid at all. Paranoia is "unreasonable fear". Well founded fears aren't paranoia. It's vigilance.

I think mass media and Hollywood has created a negative stereotype of vigilant people. Maybe, just maybe they don't want people to be vigilant and stereotyping anyone who isn't sufficiently sheeplike is a control mechanism.

Re: Vigilant, not Paranoid
 

You expressed it better than I did, Hoarder.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

QWAK,Anty Ep,When I was about 4 years old my folks mover out of Chicago because things were geting very dangerous, to a very nice neaborhood just out side the city. When I was 8 or 9 they built a NEW express way threw that nice town. As I grew older CRIME got worse and worse because people from the city could hop on the express way find "GOOD PICKINGS" in our town and in minuts be back in the city. The town closed off threw streets with baracades creating CULDISACKS to trap the ofenders, it helped a little but today that sence of SAFTY is GONE!

When I moved to my cabin befor I got compleatly moved in, a local DRUGIE broke in and got about 4 + Grand of tools and guns!

Today CRIME is EVERY WARE, you can NOT escape from it and believing that ware you live is SAFE or that you are protected by your own ARMY of local police is DELUSIONAL!

If you flaunt your wealth or others with less see you got more, YOU are a TARGET! There are LOTS of targets, not having YET been HIT is meaningless as the HERD thins the odds increase that you WILL get hit!

Your LOGIC is similar to the BUFFALO and LOOK what happened to THEM!:hahaha:

They even created a new word to describe it! "BUFFALOED" look it up!:albertein

the DUCK

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Say this is a digression but here is an interesting montage of crime scenes. I think you will find this "thought provoking."

"there goes the neighborhood!"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HaeIQMI02pE

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I would never get a safe deposit box. Your valuables simply are not safe in a safe deposit box. Under the Patriot Act, the DHS can confiscate any item in any safe deposit box. The last I read, Bank of America, Chase Bank and Compass Bank had agreed to allow warrantless searches and confiscations. Of course the government would only conduct such searchs of suspected domestic terrorists...:confused: ...but you never know when your name may appear on the list.

Also, don't forget that safe deposit boxes were raided and gold was confiscated during the last ban..

I would ponder the alternatives...alternatives that don't place your security and trust into the clutches of a corporation.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

A safety deposit box will protect society from criminals? I thought the Bankers are the criminals so why should their little boxes be safe?

:D

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

<BIG style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><BIG><BIG><SMALL>IMPORTANT AND URGENT WARNING FOR ANYONE WITH A BANK SAFE DEPOSIT BOX:</SMALL>
U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY HAS TOLD BANKS - IN WRITING - IT MAY INSPECT SAFE DEPOSIT BOXES WITHOUT WARRANT AND SIEZE ANY GOLD, SILVER GUNS OR OTHER VALUABLES IT FINDS INSIDE THOSE BOXES!
</BIG></BIG></BIG>



According to in-house memos now circulating, the DHS has issued orders to banks across America which announce to them that "under the Patriot Act" (whatever that crap means) the DHS has the absolute right to seize, without any warrant whatsoever, any and all customer bank accounts, to make "periodic and unannounced" visits to any bank to open and inspect the contents of "selected safe deposit boxes." Further, these boxes, taken from a DHS list of people who are considered "hostile to the present government, citizens who have visited outside the United States before or after 9/11 to countries now considered to be hostile to this country" " :Russia, Peoples Republic of China, Mexico, Guatemala, Spain, Italy, Egypt, France, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Turkey or the Sudan" or any citizen who has a bank account in any of those listed countries are considered to be of legitimate interest in the "ongoing investigations into foreign and domestic terrorism."

Further, the DHA "shall, at the discretion of the agent supervising the search, remove, photograph or seize as evidence" any of the following items"bar gold, gold coins, firearms of any kind unless manufactured prior to 1878, documents such as passports or foreign bank account records, pornography or any material that, in the opinion of the agent, shall be deemed of to be of a contraband nature."

DHS memos also state that banks are informed that any bank employee, on any level, that releases "improper" "classified DHS Security information" to any member of the public, to include the customers whose boxes have been clandestinely opened and inspected and "any other party, to include members of the media" and further "that the posting of any such information on the internet will be grounds for the immediate termination of the said employee or employees and their prosecution under the Patriot Act."

Currently, the two major targets of these completely illegal and warrantless searches and seizures, are the California-based Bank of America and the Compass Bank. The former is one of the largest banks in the United States and Compass Bank ( Compass Bancshares, Inc). is a $30.1 billion Southwestern financial holding company which operates 385 full-service banking centers including 139 in Texas, 89 in Alabama, 73 in Arizona, 42 in Florida, 32 in Colorado and 10 in New Mexico.

Of extraordinary interest to the DHS are Bank of America records relating to their Bank Of America <>'SafeSend Money to Mexico'<> program.

It should be noted that the DHS states that "in the event that the owners of these confiscated objects do not file an administrative complaint within three (3) months subsequent to said confiscation, the aforesaid items shall pass to the permanent custody of the DHS"

Isn't that wonderful? You and your wife are visiting relatives in France, Uncle Einar's $100,000 collection of gold coins is lifted out of your box and you don't get back to the United States for two months and don't check your looted box for another four months. My, some nice DHS person, or maybe two, has a nice new BMW to show off to his neighbors. Tough luck, Uncle Einar!

Oh, and you might like to know that the spate of "robberies" of bank credit card and personal data that took place in and around February of 2005, were not robberies at all. The DHS, using its muscle, simply went off with trucks full of data to mine at their leisure. The banks involved said nothing, and will say nothing. If they do, their people will be at a nice Federal country club, making shoes for the Army while the DHS bosses, to include the FEMA thieves, will be buying property on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or Palm Desert. Or some nice marina like Marine del Ray to keep their nice new 150' yacht.

To date, in California alone (the only report I have seen) over 1,500 banks have been "visited" and boxes rifled between January, 2005 and January, 2006.


Source: www.Rense.com





<BIG style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">SECOND INDEPENDENT SOURCE</BIG>

Another source for this information reports as follows:

. . . . . .One other more obscure sign of an "impending disaster" is the
alarming notice being put out by Bank of America officials, who in
recent weeks have been secretly instructing bank managers and
employees how to deal with customers in the case of a "national
emergency."

And to verify this claim as well as LA being a feasible target, a Bank
of America manager from Irvine, Ca., reported two weeks ago that her
bank held a "workshop" where the last two days were dedicated to
discussing new security measures.

According to the branch manager, the workshop included members
from the Homeland Security Office who instructed employees how to
field calls from customers and what they are to tell them in the event
of a national disaster.

Apparently, the manager was told how only agents from Homeland
Security, during such a disaster, would be in charge of opening safe
deposit boxes and determining what items would be given to bank
customers.

The manager then reported that she was instructed that no weapons,cash,
gold, or silver will be allowed to leave the bank and only various
paperwork will be given to its owners. After discussing the matter with
them at length, she and the other employees were then told "not to
discuss the subject with anyone."

Since speaking anonymously for fear of Homeland Security reprisals,
the bank manager has recently given notice she is leaving Bank of
America.

And to verify this claim, another Houston resident alerted about the
California case, decided to recently question a local bank employee
about any Homeland Security visits in Houston.

"I found the news alarming and decided to find out more myself," said
the Houston resident wishing to remain anonymous. "On a trip to my
bank here in Houston, I remarked to a young bank employee "well I
guess you've been told all that stuff by the manager and the Homeland
Security about what to tell your customers."

"And to my amazement, the young woman came right out and said
yes she'd been through all that, then whispered to me across the
counter, "But we're not supposed to talk about - I could lose my
job."


(Source: http://www.arcticbeacon.com/25-Jan-2006.html)

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

<o:p></o:p>
I mean, ok......they never kept their word in a treaty with the Native Americans........

they lied in WW1 when they said the that the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>US</st1:place></st1:country-region> government was not experimenting with poison gases (until they destroyed a large stockpile in 1927)........

President McKinley told the American people that the USS Maine had been sunk in <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Havana</st1:PlaceName><st1:PlaceType>Harbor</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> by a Spanish mine. The American people, outraged by this apparent unprovoked attack, supported the Spanish American War. The Captain of the USS Maine had insisted the ship was sunk by a coal bin explosion, investigations after the war proved that such had indeed been the case. There had been no mine..........

FDR claimed <st1:place>Pearl Harbor</st1:place> was a surprise attack. It wasn't. The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> saw war with <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region> as the means to get into war with <st1:country-region><st1:place>Germany</st1:place></st1:country-region>, which Americans opposed. So <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place> needed <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region> to appear to strike first. Following an 8-step plan devised by the Office of Naval Intelligence, <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place> intentionally provoked <st1:country-region><st1:place>Japan</st1:place></st1:country-region> into the attack. Contrary to the official story, the fleet did not maintain radio silence, but sent messages intercepted and decoded by US intercept stations. Tricked by the lie of a surprise attack, Americans marched off to war..........

they lied for 50 years about the nuclear radiation in Nevada (until almost everyone originally exposed was dead and then gave the families a token sum for their years of trouble)................

President Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin to send Americans off to fight in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Vietnam</st1:place></st1:country-region>. There were no torpedoes in the water in the Gulf. LBJ took advantage of an inexperienced sonar man's report to goad Congress into escalating the <st1:country-region><st1:place>Vietnam</st1:place></st1:country-region>...........

they lied for 15 years about Agent Orange (after saying that the residue from Agent Orange was really "bee poop", but now admit its real).........

they lied, at first, about testing nerve gas in the western part of Utah until the nerve agent killed a lot of sheep........

now it looks like they lied, withheld information, and allowed the World Trade Center to be destroyed (so we'd be willing to support the war against bin Ladden and Hussain)........

It is not "conspiracy theory" to suggest that leaders of nations lie to trick their people into wars. It is undeniable fact - so why wouldn't they lie about UFO's???? Swamp gas, my ass!!!! How can anyone think the government is basically honest?

(Master Ho, copyright Spring 2002...note how early I was telling people about the lie of the WTC, I actualy atarted telling that one the day after due to two odd things I noticed right off!!)<o:p></o:p>

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Actually - thats the big misnomer amongst coin collectors - I have done hours, weeks, even months of asking questions and such.......


Myths, Misunderstandings and Outright Lies!

Some precious metals firms foster the circulation of many myths, misunderstandings, and outright lies about the purchase and sale of precious metals. Generally, these misconceptions and falsehoods promote the notion that the government may again call in gold as it did in 1933 and that "reportable" transactions are preludes to confiscation. By cultivating such fears in investors, unscrupulous firms can sell high-priced (and often overpriced) coins with greater margins of profit.

Investors who believe these stories invariably pay too much or buy the wrong coins. After reading this Web page, no investor need be taken advantage of.

Avoiding Confiscation<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

The most frequently used technique to promote high-priced coins is to raise the issue of confiscation. Many telemarketers tell investors that old <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins are not "subject to confiscation," leaving the impression that modern gold bullion coins are. Consequently, many investors buy old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins at prices significantly higher than the value of their gold content. The idea of buying "non-confiscateable'' gold sounds like a powerful argument but wilts under scrutiny.

Many precious metals firms maintain that old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins, proof sets, and commemorative gold coins are "collectibles" and would not be subject to another gold recall. Some firms say that premiums of at least 15% automatically make coins collectibles. Another notion holds that coins one hundred years or older are antiques and therefore not subject to confiscation. One large firm that sells rare coins goes as far as to say:
Under current federal law, gold bullion can be confiscated by the federal government in times of national crisis. As collectibles, rare coins do not fall within the provisions permitting confiscation. <o:p></o:p>

No federal law or Treasury department regulation supports these contentions.

The myth that specific types of gold coins are "not confiscateable" stems from the Executive Order that President Roosevelt issued in 1933 calling in gold. The Executive Order exempted "gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins," but it did not define special value or collector, and certainly not collectibles. Nevertheless, telemarketers promoting old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins perpetuate this myth because it makes easier the selling of high-priced coins.

Just because <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place> exempted "gold coins having a recognized special value" does not mean that any future call-in would exempt collectibles.<st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place>'s Executive Order would have no legal binding on another gold call-in. Besides, on <st1:date Month="12" Day="31" Year="1974">December 31, 1974</st1:date>, with Executive Order 11825, President Gerald Ford repealed the Executive Order that <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place> used to call in gold in 1933. This was necessary because on the same day Congress restored Americans' right to own gold. Furthermore, in 1977 Congress removed the president's authority to regulate gold transactions during a period of national emergency other than war.

Even if a law did exempt certain coins from future confiscation, the government could change that law. Sadly, the government often simply ignores laws. Dealers who say they sell "non-confiscateable" gold have no basis for making such claims.

For further discussion of this matter, assume there were another gold call-in. Would old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins, which make up the bulk of the "non-confiscateable" market, be exempted? Probably not because they are common coins. (The old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins most often promoted are the $20 Libertys and the $20 <st1:place>St.</st1:place> Gaudens, also known as Double Eagles. A $10 coin is called an Eagle, a $5 coin a Half Eagle, and a $2-1/2 coin a Quarter Eagle.)

Although <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place>'s Executive Order required Americans to turn in their gold coins and gold bullion, foreigners continued to redeem paper dollars for gold until <st1:date Month="8" Day="15" Year="1971">August 15, 1971</st1:date>, when President Nixon closed the gold window. From the end of World War II to 1971, our gold reserves were cut in half.

It is generally believed that all the gold coins surrendered under <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place>'s call-in were melted or refined into .999 fine bullion bars. That was not the case. It was to the government's advantage to give the foreigners gold coins instead of bullion bars.

With the official price of gold at $35 an ounce, a foreign bank presenting $35 million paper dollars received 1,000,000 ounces if the Treasury delivered gold bullion. However, when the Treasury delivered gold coins with a face value of $35 million, it delivered only 967,500 ounces, saving 32,500 ounces. Each $20 <st1:City><st1:place>Liberty</st1:place></st1:City> and St. Gaudens (Double Eagles) contains .9675 ounce of gold. The smaller coins contain the same proportions. Therefore, it was to the Treasury Department's advantage to give out <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins instead of bullion bars. Additionally, before <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place>'s call-in, millions of old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins already had made their way to <st1:place>Europe</st1:place>.

So, in view of the government's policy of delivering "confiscated" gold coins to foreign governments, how can a promoter of old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins claim to be selling "non-confiscateable" gold when the coins he delivers may have been called in back in 1933?

Promoters of old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins rarely reveal the sources of their coins. They foster the idea that the coins they sell somehow survived the 1933 call-in. Probably, the coins being promoted just arrived from <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> a few weeks earlier. Several large numismatic wholesale firms have offices in <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> for finding hoards of old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> coins. One firm advertises "Shipments coming in from <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> daily." Another firm boasts offices in <st1:City><st1:place>Brussels</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:City><st1:place>Paris</st1:place></st1:City>, and <st1:City><st1:place>Zurich</st1:place></st1:City>.

As noted above, the premise of "non-confiscateable" gold lies in <st1:place>Roosevelt</st1:place>'s Executive Order that exempted "gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins." Are old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins "rare and unusual" today? Not hardly.

Between 1850 and 1907, <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> mints turned out over 100 million $20 Libertys. Between 1908 and 1933, they coined some 65 million $20 <st1:place>St.</st1:place> Gaudens. Today, no one knows how many have survived, but the number is undoubtedly in the tens of millions, with the bulk of them residing in European bank vaults.

Because of all the old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins in <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> and because of the huge premiums they carry, old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> coins are dangerous investments at this time. If gold rallies, European banks may see it as an opportunity to unload, causing old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins to fall in price while gold goes up. For further discussion about why old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins are overpriced, see Old U.S. Gold Coins.

If gold fails to rally, the banks may fear gold will stay down for a long time, prompting them to resume selling. This, too, would cause the old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins to fall in price, shrinking the premiums at which they sell over spot.

Since 1989, PCGS and NGC, the two major grading services, have "slabbed" over two million coins rated MS-60 or higher. Now, the two services are grading 200,000 to 300,000 coins a month. (See PCGS, NGC, and "Slabbed" Coins on our Web page Old U.S. Gold Coins.) Millions of lower-grade coins (VF through BU) do not even warrant being submitted. Yet, they are sold as "non-confiscateable" semi-numismatic coins. Low-grade coins that have no real collector value are called semi-numismatic. VF/XF common-date Double Eagles are definitely semi-numismatic coins.

Add in the uncounted smaller denomination old gold coins ($10 Eagles, $5 Half Eagles, etc.) and the number of available old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins grows even bigger. There is no way the old <st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> gold coins being promoted as "non-confiscateable" have a "recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins."

The concept of "non-confiscateable" gold is counterfeit. The idea lives only because dealers continue to push it for their own benefit. Investors who do not have the facts are unable to know otherwise. Readers of this Web page, however, need not be victims to the hype and promotion so prevalent in the gold coin industry.

Investors wanting to buy gold should go with the bullion coins: American Gold Eagles, Maple Leafs, or Krugerrands. These coins move dollar for dollar with the world price of gold and are easy to buy, sell, and trade. Additionally, tracking the value of these coins is easy. No "expert" has to look at them.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

QWAK,Master_Ho, You been taking "SMART PILLS" agen? :albertein You know, if you keep doing that, it will drive you CRAZY? :bird: :proud:

You got to at least PRETEND that this ASILEM we live in is the REAL WORLD or they will come for YOU and LOCK you up for starting a RIOT!:beer:

"ROW, row, ROW your boat ----- gentley down the STREEM ---- Merrily -- Merrily-- merrily-- LIFE is but a DREAM!" ---- In this case, a VERY BAD DREAM!:eek: :getdown:

the DUCK

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Hey, Master Ho:

Here is my rebuttal, and my cut and paste.

So, there.:aetsch: Argue with me will you! :fight: We will battle like Gentleman, Engarde!!! You are correct in that there is no specific law confiscting PMs but the laws are there waiting to be enacted by which ever President deems "it" a national emergency.

The Great Ag
<o:p></o:p>

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

OK_ but I am confused - maybe cause I am recently out of bed and trying to catch up on a dozen different threads here - and answer my email - and getting out my newsletter - and the killer parrot is screechingin my ear........

But I am not really sure what we're arguing over........

''That the President may investigate, regulate or prohibit, under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, by means of licenses or otherwise, any transactions in foreign exchange for the export, hoarding, melting, or earmarking of gold or silver coins or bullion or currency.''

There you have it. With this awesome power, the President of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place><st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region> may do what he pleases with our money or with gold <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>
Right there is says - "The President may change any rules he wants at any time."


In 1984 the IRS proposed new legislation that distinguished between bullion and numismatic gold and silver. This could be used in the future as a standard to define what is exempt from confiscation. They said that gold or silver coins or bars must be worth at least 15% more than their metal value on sell back to qualify as a collectable rather than as bullion.

But that was 20 years before the highly misnamed "Patriot Act"

Our best defense against confiscation is the Eminent Domain Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The clause states, in part�''nor shall private property be taken by the government for public use, without just compensation.'' In 1933 the government paid the ''official'' price of $20.67 for an ounce of gold.

I don't know about you - but if they offer me $50 face-value of worthless FRN for my ounce of gold - I shall NOT be a Happy Ho!!!!

All those old rules, laws and guidelines are useless - especially if Martial Law or an executive order gets passed - and every single person or group I contacted said the same thing........"The government can change any law they want whenever they want - and they have - and they do and they will!"

Bottomline - if you don't hold it (and if you have it in a safe depoist box, you don't, you entrust someone else to hold it) you don't own it.

*Puts Katana away* :aetsch:

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I bet they will and I bet they don't. :) If you are completely law abiding, why would you be going in and out of a SDB every few weeks or months unless you keep the deeds to the houses you sell in your legit business. Suppose for the sake of argument you are a doctor. The bank knows u r a doc. Why would you be putting in and taking out of a SDB?? Hmm... that is kind of suspicious... Now if you were to make mention of the fact that you buy and sell stocks alot, but take actual possession of your paper instead of holding your purchases in ledger form ("book entry"), then that may alay suspicion. But, hey, I just do not trust bankers.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Here is a crazy idea. I will tell the truth. I will tell the hourly employee at the bank that I am a coin collector and I'm afraid of getting plundered.

A plausible idea isnt it? I think so.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Not arguing over anything, really. :ARMS1: Just pointing out that confiscation could occur if such a thing was required.

Your rapier whit always slices me. :haha: Bad humor, but what the heck.

The Great Ag

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

But that was my point too - not only that confiscation could occur - but that older coins do not necessarily protect one from confiscation!!

**Hands you a piece of chocolate""

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Hey, Anty Ep:

They are your coins, so do what you like as it pleases you best. :coolbeer: We are here for entertainment purposes, and just to piss each other off and stir the sh:censored: t storm, you know.

Still the bank is required to submit a SAR on anything deemed "suspicious" without informing you. An SAR might read, customer visits box X times per week or month, claims to be looking at gold and silver coins. Oops, now on some file somewhere there is a mention of what you own. Going too often could mean you are selling them for weapons of the JIHAD!!

I don't know how serious the gov't takes crap like that, but IMO, the gov't has no right knowing what I keep or don't keep in my box. I do have one, but if anything from there is missing, I don't care as it is replaceable, albeit with some difficulty.

The Great Ag

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

As far as I know, numismatic coins, however that is ultimately defined, will be free from confiscation. The phrasing in such a law could written, "all gold bullion and coins are to be turned in to. . . by. . .. The appropriate value will be credited to your account." Down near the bottom of the statute it would say, "unless prohibited by law."

I do think high end numismatics will be safe. Could you imagine turning in this for spot when it could sell for $300k and up! These coins will never be forcible confiscated.

The Great Ag

**Gives you my blessings**

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Or worse - they figure that your coverstory for what you are REALLY doing! Terrorist probably use coverstories like that a lot.........

I would tell them I am visiting my wife and killer parrot to make sure they have enough food! :haha:

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

What I REALLY imagine is - if the dollar tanks and they do have to build a new currency based on gold - they will be trying to confiscate ALL gold.......they'll try to scrape together every grain of gold they can........beware your fillings - the government will replace them with complimentary tin!!:rolleyes:

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

They'll just use "deep gold." There seems to be plenty of that...

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Do you know why?

High end numismatics are a big hobby with insiders. TPTB guys. Just read that Frankel "Double Eagle" book and you can see all the Jew coin dealer names and big industrialists like JP Morgan or whatever. TPTB guys and the rich class, if there is a collapse, will see it coming and move harder into bullion and numismatics and look for the protection of the state more than ever.

Anyhow this issue for me is more about protection against garden variety theft than anything. I think we will see it coming at least a few months if the SH really HTF. You know that people were running on banks and gold for months before the order in 33 came in. Today with deriavatives and such the economic conflagration could blow up faster but smart richies just like us will be hedging their more risky portfolio elements with the usual insurances. We're not the only ones with these good ideas.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Safe Deposit Box ??? Uhh Uhh...Negative...
( Not mentioning all of the other pros and cons which have been discussed here...) SDB has a fee, almost everywhere else is "free".
....hah... I never figured out how it is folks continually pay money to have other folks tell them when it is they can visit their own "stuff"...
A SDB has " hours"....Furthermore, a SDB will not allow entry in the event of any type of power outage / blackout....or anything else one can dream up...
My favorite "key" is a "shovel"...I highly recommend it.
Regards,
Haystackneedle

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I agree - and have said so in the past - especially with secitons I bolded - but also - tho I am not waiting for a sign, I am putting some into numismatics NOW cause, by the time most people see it coming - the prices ont he numismatics will have already gone skyhigh!

I have also put a small percentage in a metal account out of the country (protected by that country AND by Lloyds of London) in case TBTP pull something weird.....and would move evben more there is I felt something was coming!

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Is it not legal to keep gold and silver in a safety deposit box? So barring a situation where the S really HTF or a gold recall, even IF the gov't was to "look in your box" you aren't doing anything illegal. Keep the illegal stuff at home and put the elgal stuff in the SDB, diversify that way... :cheerful:

Now if the SHTF, then I understand all of the above reasons against a SDB, but if you do not think that is comming near-term, then why not? What am I missing?

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I think somebody has problems with their math. I've seen this whole article, or whatever you want to call it, a few times before.

It was not to the government's advantage to give out U.S. gold coins. They were better off to give out bullion in exchange for paper notes.

Here's how I figure it:

$35 in paper notes = 1 oz in bars
or
$35 in paper notes = 1.693125 oz in U.S. coins

$140 in paper notes, for example, would buy 4 oz if bullion was given for it. The same $140 would buy 7 double eagles, if that's what was given. If one double eagle has .9675 oz of gold, 7 of them would be 6.7725 oz.

So if a foreign bank wanted to exchange 35 million paper dollars for gold, The U.S. would presumably have to choose between:

A) giving them 1,000,000 oz in bullion, or

B) giving them 1,750,000 double eagles (twice that many eagles, four times as many half eagles, etc, or any combination thereof) Paying out in gold coins would give 1,693,125 oz of gold to the foreign bank.

So I guess, by the way I figure things, it would have been a huge disadvantage to the U.S. government to give out gold coins at face value for U.S. paper notes.

This doesn't really have anything to do with safe deposit boxes, but I think it is worthy of being pointed out.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Confiscation is always a possibility.

I just think the meth zombies are the most credible scenario when it comes to confiscation. This makes for a good argument for safety deposit boxes (and owning a gun).

The second plausible confiscation possibility is where you have been incarcerated for an alleged crime wherein lawful authorities are stripping your estate. Yeah, they will get around to opening your safety deposit boxes too. Definitely a strike against deposit boxes.

The third confiscation scenario, i.e. government seizure of PMs in safety deposit boxes is unlikely but it is possible.

Midnight gardening certainly reduces the chances of confiscation. Of course, you won't get to gaze at your stash too often.

A hidden fireproof and securely bolted to the floor safe is probably the best scenario but this only works if you own your own home and don't plan on moving out any time soon.

Whatever solution you choose, I would advise protecting your stash from burglars as your primary precaution.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

And you might well be right - and, for sake of argument, let's say you are.......bu the reality is that the government DID give out the coins over bullion (cause thats where the coins ended up and where dealers have been getting them back from - actually read about that a couple of nights ago in a book on coins, and hjave read it many places)

SO - my best guess is that our govenment (honest thing it is) sent the coins as 1 ounce gold, not .9675 gold........just a smidgen in terms of a coin, but a fortune in terms of thousands or millions of coins.........

but again, its just a guess - maybe someone better veresed in this point of history can answer this!

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

You're kidding yourself. They are everywhere. Rural areas are full of meth labs and meth users. Plus lots of other drug users. Ask your local law enforcement or people that work in the social services field. I live in a small town in a rural area and have a friend that works at the county jail. Most frequent customers are dopers and child molestors.
Safe deposit box? NO WAY !!!
At this point in history laws mean nothing to the gooberment. They will change them, ignore them or just take what they want. Safe secure home storage is the way to go.
http://www.safeshowroom.com/eshop/10...ductCode=B2200
Buy this and set it in a concrete floor. You'll need a concrete saw and about 8 bags of high strength concrete. It has a spring loaded re-locker in case someone tries to tear off the combo dial. It will increase the value of your home. The price to buy it at a safe store and have it installed would be about $1,000.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

1-- crackheads, again, not a problem in my neighborhood. leave it at that.

2-- professional burglars? they hit where they have inside information, mostly. they're always a danger if you have valuable tpp (tangible personal property) and a real one. SDB offers protection.

3-- government confiscation: very remote risk, unless, we are talking about getting sued, losing, and then having the sheriff collect for a judgment, which happens all the time. I suppose that's a form of "government confiscation." But I stay out of trouble with the law both the government and private matters, so that is not really an issue for me.

as for "when will the SHTF" nobody has a crystal ball. you should not live in fear of this or let it dictate all your life plans. do some reasonable preps, undate them periodically, and dont let it rule your life. I see lots of that kind of attitude here and it's very similar to the "End of Days" crowd that always thinks Jesus is coming back too very shortly. Some folks have made millions selling books on that-- I think I saw Hal Lindsey's famous name mentioned recently for example. Well, every era comes to an end and history is cyclical, but, keep in mind that the Apostles seem to have thought Christ might return during their very own lifetimes and he obviously didnt. So perhaps the Apocalypse is not right around the corner eh?

Meanwhile the more likely risks are the ones it behooves a rational person to prepare for with the greater part of time and effort.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

I think that safe deposit boxes are ok for now. We aren't going to collapse tomorow. But you have to watch the signs. There will come a day when you'll have to get it out of there.

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

QWAK,Somthing that has not been mentioned and is much more common --- DEATH of the box owner. Should the box owner die you have about 24 hr. to get in to the box for important documents,cash what ever, befor the box is sealed and it can take months to get back in with probate etc.

If you have a safe depoit box you should have an EMERGENCY PLAN and some one who you TOTALY TRUST who can get in FAST if the worst happens!

Just somthing to concider.

the DUCK

Re: safe deposit boxes?
 

Careful there GRecon, your views are dangerously moderate.

Your correct about the probate thing Duck unless have joint ownership on a box. Of course, joint ownership adds additional complexities but going through life not trusting anyone is rather hollow.